Transcript – Michael Steele vs. Tim Kaine on Meet the Press
(Source: NBC’s Meet the Press)
MR. DAVID GREGORY: Our issues this Sunday: warring parties. Democrats and Republicans at odds over the economy, national security, abortion and health care. This morning, whether President Obama’s agenda is the blueprint for lasting Democratic rule or an example of overreach that will allow Republicans to chart the course back to power. With us for their first Sunday morning showdown as party chairs, the Democratic National Committee’s Tim Kaine and the Republican National Committee’s Michael Steele square off on the many issues that divide their two parties.
Then the torture debate and the House speaker’s pointed charge.
(Videotape)
REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): So yes, I’m saying that they are misleading–that the CIA was misleading the Congress.
(End videotape)
MR. GREGORY: What Speaker Pelosi knew about the use of waterboarding and whether she did anything to try to stop it. Our roundtable weighs in on that and much more after a busy week in Washington: the National Journal’s Ron Brownstein; the Council on Foreign Relations’ Richard Haass, author of new book “War of Necessity, War of Choice: A Memoir of Two Iraq Wars”; Newsweek’s Jon Meacham; and The Wall Street Journal’s Peggy Noonan.
But first, the chairman of the Democratic National Committee, Governor Tim Kaine of Virginia, and the chairman of the Republican National Committee, Michael Steele.
Welcome both of you back to MEET THE PRESS.
MR. MICHAEL STEELE: It’s great to be with you.
GOV. TIM KAINE (D-VA): Thanks, David.
MR. GREGORY: There’s a lot to talk about. Let’s begin with the issue of abortion, the divide between left and right in this country, and it is playing out today on Notre Dame University’s campus; the president there to receive an honorary degree, to give the commencement address, and he’s created quite a bit of controversy.
MR. STEELE: Yeah.
MR. GREGORY: And here’s the backdrop, and it’s very interesting. The Gallup Poll did a survey this week and this is what it found: “A new poll…finds 51 percent of Americans calling themselves `pro-life’ on the issue of abortion, 42 percent `pro-choice.’ It’s the first time a majority of U.S. adults have identified themselves as pro-life since Gallup began asking the question back in 1995.”
Chairman Steele, both of you as Catholics, should Notre Dame have a pro-abortion rights president get a degree and address the graduates?
MR. STEELE: I think you have two issues here that need to get clearly separated. First off, any institution’s going to be honored to have the president of the United States come and address them. And that’s separate from that institution then placing its imprimatur on the president by conferring a degree, which is what–which is the case here. And that’s where Catholics draw the line. It’s not about the president speaking at the university, it’s the fact that the institution is saying that we confer, you know, our favor on you…
MR. GREGORY: Right.
MR. STEELE: …and by extension a lot of the values that you represent and hold, because they are tied together in many respects. Those institutions don’t hand those degrees out that readily. So it is, it is a very strong sticking point and I think a lot of Catholics and a lot of pro-life Americans are very concerned about that. And I think it’s inappropriate. And the president should speak, but the degree should not be conferred.
MR. GREGORY: Chairman Steele.
GOV. KAINE: Well, David, look, I’m a Catholic. I’ve got two brothers who are Notre Dame grads and feel very close to that community. I’m very happy that they’ve invited the president and that they are honoring him with a degree today because I think that his career merits it, and I think most Catholics agree. The issue on abortion is really this, the president has really made it pretty plain: Our party stands for let’s reduce unintended pregnancies, let’s reduce abortions, but we don’t have to criminalize the choices that women make or that their doctors make to do so. So the president has got a very open dialogue going now with folks who want to come up with other strategies to reduce abortion. Better health care access for women, you know, appropriate education of youngsters, better adoption policies.
MR. GREGORY: Right.
GOV. KAINE: Those things can reduce abortion.
MR. GREGORY: What should the president say today, though, to address this controversy…
GOV. KAINE: Sure.
MR. GREGORY: …at a time when this culture debate is going to rear its head again as we get to the Supreme Court?
GOV. KAINE: I think what he should say is that let’s beware of those who want to make it into a polarized culture debate and talk about ways for Americans to find common ground. And that’s what the president has done, and I think that’s what he will share today at Notre Dame.
MR. GREGORY: You know, it’s interesting, because this is an issue where some on the left have been critical of the president, saying that he hasn’t pushed hard enough. This is how The New York Times reported it on Friday: “[Obama] has actually dialed back some earlier ambitions. In 2007, he promised Planned Parenthood that…[he would] sign the Freedom of Choice Act, which effectively codifies Roe v. Wade. Now he says the bill is `not my highest legislative priority.’” Is he backtracking?
GOV. KAINE: He’s looking forward to bringing people together. Because again, abortion is like a lot of other issues. It gets pitted as, you know, one polarized side against the other. But American people, I think, recognize that we would want to reduce unintended pregnancies and abortions. You just don’t have to criminalize women’s health care choices…
MR. GREGORY: Right.
GOV. KAINE: …to do so. And that’s where the president is drawing people together.
MR. GREGORY: Chairman Steele, there are Republicans like Newt Gingrich, who’s out there saying this is the most pro-abortion of any American president.
MR. STEELE: True.
MR. GREGORY: Do you see it that way? True?
MR. STEELE: I absolutely see it that way.
MR. GREGORY: Based on what?
MR. STEELE: Based on the fact–based on his past record in, in the state legislature, the bill that he sponsors–sponsored there with respect to partial-birth abortion and late-term abortions. The first steps of his administration were to undo the executive order that would ban federal funding of abortion and abortion-related information overseas. I mean, this president is really talking out both sides of his mouth on this issue. On the one instance he’s telling Planned Parenthood, “I got your back, I’m going to be there,” but then on the other instance he’s coming into an institution like Notre Dame and he’s going to play this, you know, “we can all get along on this issue.” The reality of it is the majority of Americans now–and a lot of those numbers are reflected by young people who are coming around on this issue. The science is now proving that life has greater value than, than the Supreme Court thought it did in 1973. And I think that–you’re with two pro-life chairman here. I think that this issue’s going to be a big part of the debate going forward, and the administration had better be careful here because you cannot get away from the morality, morality that’s involved with this issue.
GOV. KAINE: David, I, I just have to say on this, it’s not talking out of both sides of your mouth to try to bring Americans together, and that’s what this president is doing. As far as Newt Gingrich’s statement, a great group in the Democratic Party, Dems For Life, has been very happy with the way this president has included them both in the platform drafting process and now in discussions about finding common ground on strategies to reduce unintended pregnancies and abortions.
MR. STEELE: Well, I…
MR. GREGORY: Mm-hmm.
Let me ask you this: Is the Republican Party open to pro-abortion right candidates in the way that Governor Kaine has survived in the Democratic Party?
MR. STEELE: We’ve, we’ve, we’ve had, we’ve had, we’ve had wonderful pro, pro-choice candidates. Governor Christie Todd Whitman, for example, was a very successful Republican governor.
MR. GREGORY: Right.
MR. STEELE: And I think, I think this is a great opportunity, since the chairman has made this, this opening here, I look forward to working to build a strong pro-life coalition within the Democratic Party since that’s–this is the direction the president wants to go.
MR. GREGORY: All right, let me talk about how this may play out in the Supreme Court, with a new Supreme Court nominee forthcoming from the administration.
MR. STEELE: Mm-hmm.
MR. GREGORY: And the president has talked about wanting a nominee who is empathetic, somebody who knows what it’s like to be poor, to be African-American, to be gay. Chairman Steele, you were on the radio recently and you took a shot on that priority for the president. This is what you said.
MR. STEELE: Mm-hmm.
MR. GREGORY: “I don’t need some judge sitting up there feeling bad for my opponent because of their life circumstances or their condition. And short changing me and my opportunity to get fair treatment under the law. Crazy nonsense empathetic.” Sounds like–you, you also say to the NRA on Friday, “Sounds like the president’s been watching `Dr. Phil’ too much, that’s who he wants on the Supreme Court.”
MR. STEELE: Yeah. I don’t–look, I need a judge who’s going to take the Constitution, apply the facts, apply the law and come to a reasoned, sound judgment. I don’t need a judge to look at an African-American standing before him and go off on some, you know, liberal tangent about, “Oh, gee, I wonder what his life was like as a child.” I’m concerned about getting fair adjudication and jurisprudence under the law. And, and the reality of it is this: This is an opportunity for the president to, to break this cycle that we’ve been in, this back and forth between Democrats and Republicans when it comes to judicial nominations. The Constitution must stand for something, it must mean something, and I think this is the appropriate time for this president to show that it has value and importance other than being empathetic.
MR. GREGORY: Chairman Kaine, Jeff Sessions, Senator Sessions, who’s the ranking member on the Judiciary Committee, says you got to get a judge on there instead of, say, a politician who’s going to think that they can start interpreting the law and making law. What do you say?
GOV. KAINE: Well, let me wrap it in with the empathy comment. You know, I, I think this is a fundamental philosophical difference between the parties, David. And, you know, I would say to Chairman Steele, you know, the party of no shouldn’t now become the party of no empathy. What the president said was, “I want somebody who has the empathy to be able to understand when, when he is–when he or she is writing an opinion, how is it going to play out in the lives of people sitting in their kitchens trying to work on the economy?”
MR. STEELE: But that’s not the role…
GOV. KAINE: “How is it going to play out in state legislators who have to follow what the court writes, or in a court that has to interpret it?” Empathy is the ability to understand how an opinion written in an closed chamber actually gets played out in real people’s lives. That’s what this president wants.
MR. STEELE: I’m sorry. I, I am sorry.
GOV. KAINE: And I’m surprised at the other guys would have a problem with that.
MR. STEELE: You know, the, the party of no is no to judges that are going to sit there and try to come up with some feel-good legislation, effectively, to feel sorry for me, a judge is there to look at he facts and apply the law and come up with the appropriate resolution. through their opinion. That’s not the role of a judge. A judge is not there He’s–I don’t have time for the judge to feel good or bad about an issue.
GOV. KAINE: But that’s not what the president ever said. He’s, he’s not…
MR. STEELE: He said he’s empathetic. Go look up the definition.
GOV. KAINE: Right. I, I, I have. And…
MR. STEELE: The definition is empathetic is, like, concerned about one’s feelings.
MR. GREGORY: All right.
MR. STEELE: I don’t a judge to be concerned about my feelings.
GOV. KAINE: Well, if you guys are against empathy, just stand on that platform.
MR. STEELE: I’m not–it’s not–look, it’s not about…
GOV. KAINE: Empathy is something we think’s a great value.
MR. STEELE: Come on, Chairman, you know it’s not about being against empathy, it’s about applying the rule of law and having jurisprudence that you can trust, not a judge who may have a bad day or be overly sensitive to my condition.
MR. GREGORY: Let me move away from the issue of social issues and let’s talk about national security and where it divides these two parties. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi is in some hot water this week. She’s taken on the CIA, saying she was never actually briefed about the use of interrogation techniques like waterboarding. She accuses them of misleading the Congress. They have pushed back saying that wasn’t the case. Why does this matter, Chairman Kaine, in the overall debate over “torture”?
GOV. KAINE: You know, David, great question, because I think the real issue is thank goodness we have a president and a Congress who are stating clearly torture is no longer an instrument of foreign policy of this nation. That’s what really matters, that we’ve turned the page, we’ve said that torture is not an instrument of foreign policy. So what was…
MR. GREGORY: But Democrats don’t want to turn page, Chairman.
GOV. KAINE: Well…
MR. GREGORY: They want accountability for Bush administration figures. And there are those on the right who say wait a minute…
GOV. KAINE: Well…
MR. GREGORY: …what about the House speaker who was in a position to push back and evidently didn’t?
GOV. KAINE: There are some who would like to get into what happened in meetings five, six years ago. The president has made pretty plain…
MR. GREGORY: Right.
GOV. KAINE: …we’ve got to move forward. We have to move forward. Their accountability is important, but the most important thing is getting this right. And so he declared, in a very direct way, torture is no longer going to be used. And I think the American people are rallying around that, you know. So–and as, look, as I followed this situation with the speaker, she said she was briefed that the CIA was getting legal advice about what to do. She was not briefed about the, the tactics being used and thought they were going to come back to her on that, and nobody from the CIA has contradicted her on that.
MR. GREGORY: Well, they have said that they–their contemporaneous accounts indicate that she was indeed briefed on the use of waterboarding.
GOV. KAINE: I, I, I think they, they will say, if you go and look at Panetta’s letter and others, that she was, that she was briefed about the fact that legal advice was being sought, that legal permission had been granted, but the actual fact that it had been used previous to that briefing I do not thing was disclosed to her.
MR. GREGORY: Do Democrats have faith still in the House speaker’s leadership?
GOV. KAINE: Absolutely. Absolutely.
MR. GREGORY: Her job is secure?
GOV. KAINE: It is.
MR. STEELE: Well, I, I–thank goodness for Nancy Pelosi. And I’m so, I was so edified by that press conference the other day where she really expressed in as long as, Tom, she could take, eight different views on this one issue. And I think the reality here is that Nancy Pelosi has stepped in it big time, and she’s not put the Democratic Party in a position where, where the question for me is does the president support Nancy Pelosi’s versions of what happened or his CIA director’s version of what happened? And then the next question is you’ve got, you know, Steny Hoyer himself who’s calling for a closer examination of what Nancy Pelosi knew and when she knew it. And I, you know, and I know Steny very well, and he’s a capable, qualified leader in the House. And he, if, if he sees some concern here, then there must be some rot somewhere in the explanation.
GOV. KAINE: (Unintelligible)
MR. GREGORY: Should there be a wider–should there be a truth commission? Should there be an investigation?
MR. STEELE: I think, I think you’ve heard a lot of Republicans call for that. And if this is, if this is a door that the Democrats and, and their leadership, since they have the House and the Senate and the presidency and they want to expose all of this…
GOV. KAINE: Mm-hmm.
MR. STEELE: …then let’s put it all on the table and let’s take a closer look at it.
GOV. KAINE: Michael, can’t, can’t we agree, sitting right here, it’s a great thing that this nation has stated that we’re not going to use torture as an instrument of foreign policy? Can’t we agree on that?
MR. STEELE: I, I, I think that, I think that’s perfectly fine. But that’s not the point. The point is that you have the speaker of the House who said that she, she wasn’t told, she didn’t have a clue. And, in, in fact, the evidence contradicts that.
GOV. KAINE: But, but I’m glad we have agreed now that turning the page and stating that torture is an instrument of foreign policy is a good thing.
MR. STEELE: You can, you can turn…
MR. GREGORY: Well, do you…
MR. STEELE: Well, you can turn the page all you want to that. That fact is still sitting there…
MR. GREGORY: Do you believe…
MR. STEELE: …that your party’s going to have to address.
MR. GREGORY: Do you believe interrogators under the Bush administration’s watch engaged in torture?
MR. STEELE: I think what, what was engaged in at that time was what the, the intelligence community, what the administration, the Department of Defense, the secretary of state all agreed were forms of getting information that were at that time…
MR. GREGORY: Right.
MR. STEELE: …you know, deemed appropriate. Now, if since that time if there’s, if there’s another opinion that’s been formed by this administration or others, then that’s the direction of the course.
MR. GREGORY: Do you, do you think it was torture?
MR. STEELE: Well, my, my opinion on it doesn’t matter. My personal opinion is look, I want the information.
MR. GREGORY: Yeah.
MR. STEELE: We’ll get it however we can get it.
MR. GREGORY: But you do, you have an opinion?
MR. STEELE: I have a personal opinion, yes.
MR. GREGORY: Do you think it was torture?
MR. STEELE: That’s my–I’m not, that’s not appropriate here.
MR. GREGORY: You’re not going to say.
MR. STEELE: Yeah.
MR. GREGORY: One of, one of the more outspoken members of this debate was the former vice president, Vice President Cheney, who has spoken out in was no violation of the law. But there’s a political matter here as well, and this was the Washington Post headline this week: “As defense of Bush administration policies and said there was no torture, there Cheney Seizes Spotlight, Many Republicans Wince.” Chairman Steele, did you wince when the vice president was out talking about all of this?
MR. STEELE: No. You know, no, not at all. You know, I–look, I look at–you know, I found, you know, Cheney, I find Pelosi, all–everybody has an opinion, everybody has something to say. The difference is the Vice President Cheney is no longer vice president of the United States, he’s a private citizen who expressed his, his thoughts.
MR. GREGORY: Well, wait a second.
MR. STEELE: But let me, let me…
MR. GREGORY: The Democrats are saying he is in fact the voice of the Republican cause.
MR. STEELE: But there are–we have a lot of voices in, in the Republican Party, just as the Democrats have a lot of voices, starting with the president, the chairman, Al Franken and so many others. So the reality of it from my perspective is no, there was no wincing here.
MR. GREGORY: Mm-hmm.
MR. STEELE: The vice president expressed his views on this. I think he has some understanding, since he has been in, in that mix for a while. And, and it, it doesn’t matter, ultimately, what the vice president thinks. What matters is what this administration is going to do…
GOV. KAINE: Well…
MR. STEELE: …with respect to, you know, detainees that they come in, you know, bold and brash, let’s open up the, open up Guantanamo, let’s shut it down, and no clue where to put people.
MR. GREGORY: Right.
MR. STEELE: And I understand…
GREGORY: Let me…
MR. STEELE: Let me make this point. Jim Moran, your own, your own congressman, has offered to bring the detainees to Virginia. So are you prepared to go to the people of Virginia…
GOV. KAINE: I think you’re overstating that.
MR. STEELE: No, that’s….
GOV. KAINE: But I want to go back to something. He said it doesn’t matter what the vice president thinks.
MR. GREGORY: Mm-hmm.
GOV. KAINE: I beg to differ. Again, fundamental philosophical differences. When the immediately past sitting vice president of the United States says that Rush Limbaugh is a better representative of where the Republican Party needs to be than Colin Powell, he is laying out a pretty stark picture…
MR. STEELE: No he’s not.
GOV. KAINE: …of where the party is.
MR. STEELE: No he’s not. And, Chairman…
GOV. KAINE: And so we push back against that.
MR. STEELE: …you’re, you’re not going to get to parse that that way, no.
GOV. KAINE: We, we celebrate the Republican leaders like Jon Huntsman, for example, who, who…
MR. GREGORY: Let–right. We’re going to get to that. You raised this issue of what the vice president said last Sunday. Let’s just show that tape and have you both react to it.
GOV. KAINE: Sure.
(Videotape, May 10, 2009)
MR. BOB SCHIEFFER: Rush Limbaugh said the other day that the party’d probably be better off if Colin Powell left and just became a Democrat.
VICE PRES. DICK CHENEY: Mm-hmm.
MR. SCHIEFFER: Colin Powell said Republicans’d be better off if they didn’t have Rush Limbaugh speaking for them. Where do you come down?
VICE PRES. CHENEY: Well, if I had to choose in terms of being a Republican, I’d go with Rush Limbaugh, I think. I think my take on it was Colin had already left the party. I didn’t know he was still a Republican.
MR. SCHIEFFER: And you said you’d take Rush Limbaugh over Colin Powell.
VICE PRES. CHENEY: I would.
MR. SCHIEFFER: All right.
VICE PRES. CHENEY: Politically.
(End videotape)
MR. GREGORY: Chairman…
MR. STEELE: Yeah.
MR. GREGORY: …do you agree?
MR. STEELE: Look, I take both of them. I want them both.
MR. GREGORY: Mm-hmm.
MR. STEELE: I’m, I’m in the building…
MR. GREGORY: So you disagree, that there’s room for both.
MR. STEELE: It’s not, it’s not a question of–the man expressed his opinion. You know, that’s his, that’s his view.
MR. GREGORY: Right.
MR. STEELE: As the chairman of the party, I want Rush Limbaugh, I want, I want, you know, Colin Powell, and I’ll even take Tim Kaine. I mean, he’s pro-life, he’s pro-business, you know, he’s pro-Second Amendment. You’ll, you’ll fit…
GOV. KAINE: My father-in-law was a Republican governor, but I’m a proud Democrat.
MR. STEELE: You’ll fit right in.
MR. GREGORY: Right.
MR. STEELE: My point is I’m in the process of working with leaders across this country to multiply and, and add to this party, not subtract and divide.
MR. GREGORY: Right. So does Dick Cheney out there, does it hurt that effort? Would you like him to tone it down that rhetoric?
MR. STEELE: No it doesn’t. No, no. Dick–I, I’m not in the business of suppressing someone’s opinion and their thoughts. He gave a legitimate interview, he shared his opinion. My opinion as chairman of the party is that I want them both and we can accommodate everybody. You all come, the table’s open, sit down, let’s get to work.
GOV. KAINE: Michael, then I’m, I’m just going to ask you this; then don’t go after the Republican senators who voted with President Obama on the recovery act.
MR. STEELE: Well, no…
GOV. KAINE: You said you might go after him in the primaries…
MR. STEELE: Wait a minute.
GOV. KAINE: …and that pushed Arlen Specter away.
MR. STEELE: You’ve taken…
GOV. KAINE: Embrace those senators, don’t go after them.
MR. STEELE: Arlen–first off, Arlen Specter voted himself out of the party. He pushed himself away. In 1966, when he couldn’t get himself elected as a Democrat, he became a Republican. And in 2009, when he couldn’t get re-elected as a Republican, he became a Democrat. So that takes care of that.
MR. GREGORY: Look, I want, I want to bring up Charlie Crist, because this is an interesting point.
MR. STEELE: Mm-hmm.
GOV. KAINE: Yeah.
MR. GREGORY: Here he was earlier this year effectively campaigning with President Obama on the stimulus plan, Charlie Crist supporting it. He’s now denying funds to anybody who supported the stimulus plan. running for the Senate. You have said, Chairman Steele, that you are open to
MR. STEELE: As–that is not…
MR. GREGORY: Will you do in the case of Charlie Crist?
MR. STEELE: Let’s, let’s set the record straight here. That is not what I said. What I said was that I would follow the lead of the state party leadership and, and, and making their determinations with respect to primaries and, and the outcomes thereof. Charlie Crist is going to be in a primary for this office. If he wins the primary, I look forward to supporting him if the, if the party’s behind him. And that’s all I said.
MR. GREGORY: Right.
MR. STEELE: And I think, I think that…
MR. GREGORY: Why would the senatorial committee already announce support for him?
MR. STEELE: Because the senatorial committee is, is in a different business. They’re looking to build the Senate, the Senate numbers…
MR. GREGORY: Mm-hmm.
MR. STEELE: …and the membership. They don’t have, they don’t have to deal with the state party chairmen and the party leadership and the grassroots the same way the national party chairmanship does.
MR. GREGORY: But…
MR. STEELE: And our general rule is we don’t get into primaries. We, we, we trust the judgment of primary voters and we trust the leadership to make those political decisions that they need to make with respect to the candidates who’ll be running.
MR. GREGORY: Do you think, as head is–head of the Republican Party, that you need more voices like Governor Crist?
MR. STEELE: I need voices period. I need, I need the Republican base, I need Republican activists to stand up and talk about what this administration is doing on the economy, what it’s going to do to us on health care and the actions it’s taken thus far in the Middle East and around the world. So, you know, I’m not, I’m not, I’m not…
MR. GREGORY: But why make support for the stimulus a litmus test then?
MR. STEELE: The support for the stimulus was not a litmus test in, in the, in the way that you’re meaning it. The, the key thing here to keep in mind is that was a core principle for Republicans across this country with respect to our views on spending and, and government interference in, in the market. And so that was, that was a line, it was a clear line that the House Republicans did not cross. Three members of the Senate did. That was a choice that they made. And as I said at the time, they will account to their voters in their respective primaries when that, when that comes.
MR. GREGORY: Final point on this before I want to turn to some Democratic criticisms of the administration. You have the prospect of real consolidation the Senate with Specter flipping… MR. STEELE: That was scary, isn’t it? of Democratic power. You have it in
MR. GREGORY: You have the executive and you have, with Specter coming over, the legislative. How do Republicans overcome that?
MR. STEELE: Well, Specter seems to be having a little bit of problem. I just want to, I just want to know what the deal was that, that got him to the other side. I mean, this is a very sweetheart deal. He jumped to the front of the line, you’re hearing the grumbling behind the scenes. I mean, clearly Governor Rendell…
GOV. KAINE: The deal was we have a big…
MR. GREGORY: Whoa, let’s…(unintelligible). How do you overcome this consolidation of power?
MR. STEELE: Clearly–well, but–well, the way you overcome it is to expose it, expose what it means, expose the fact that when–if, if the Senate gets to 60 that there will be very little that can be done to stop, you know, the wholesale, you know, use of the government in the lives of business, in the lives of, of families. And I think what we need to do is, is talk very clearly about what this means to, to the average person out there, to have one power, one power, one political power control it all. This country has been built on and certainly in the law 25 years worked with this balance. And right now the Democrats are positioning themselves to tip that balance when they lock it down, and I’m standing in, in the way of that as best I can.
GOV. KAINE: And…
MR. GREGORY: Chairman Kaine, we’ve talked about some of the internal dissention in the Republican Party.
GOV. KAINE: Yep.
MR. GREGORY: Let’s talk about the Democrats right now…
GOV. KAINE: Sure.
MR. GREGORY: …and look at what happened just this week. The president reversed himself on the issue of releasing those detainee abuse photos, he’s reversed himself on the issue of military commissions, now siding with the Bush administration approach with some key differences in how those commissions will move forward.
GOV. KAINE: Those differences are very important.
MR. GREGORY: They are, I understand that. During the campaign he said that “don’t ask, don’t tell,” the government’s–the military’s prohibition against gays and lesbians in the military would be overturned. He hasn’t done that yet. Is he walking back from some of the key campaigns that he…
GOV. KAINE: No.
MR. GREGORY: …promises he made in the course of the campaign?
GOV. KAINE: Absolutely not. Let me take them in order. On the photos, the president wrestled with a very fundamental question, which is now that certain photos are out, are more photos going to help us in our national security or not? And he reached the conclusion that they would put American lives at risk who are in Iraq and Afghanistan and other places in the world, and so that there was not a good reason to release more photos and in fact it would hurt our security interests. I think we want a president who’s going to look at that data every day and try to make the best decision for the national security, and that was this decision.
On the military tribunals, when he was in the Senate he was a harsh critic of the way these military commissions were operated by the Bush administration. But he did support military commission bills reforming the process, and that’s what he’s announced today. It’s not contrary to what he said earlier. He said the way we’re going it is wrong, we have to put fundamental reforms in place to make sure that detainees are brought to trial quickly, the right evidence is used, and that’s what’ll happen.
And then finally, on “don’t ask, don’t tell” the president has said, and I share this, this is a policy that needs to change. It is a policy that was enacted by Congress, and so working with Congress to find a way to change it is something he’s committed to doing with Secretary Gates. But he, he has the same…
MR. GREGORY: Why hasn’t he done it? Why…
GOV. KAINE: Well, he’s only been, he’s only been in for three-plus months. He’s had a little bit to deal with.
MR. GREGORY: Right.
GOV. KAINE: A couple of wars, toughest economy since 1930s.
MR. GREGORY: So this is not a top priority for him.
GOV. KAINE: This is a very important priority, but it is something that’s going to need Congressional support so he’s working with the military leaders on this. And there’s a whole host of other issues that the president has said, “I’m getting to. I can’t get to them yet, but I’m going to get to them.” And that’s what happens with every president.
MR. STEELE: But it’s not a, but it’s not as important as overturning the project labor agreements that would allow small businesses to actually effectively compete on, on contracts, on federal contracts which they can no longer do because they’re not unionized. It’s, it was, it was certainly not as important as, you know, reversing the, the executive order banning abortions overseas and it certainly was not as important as defunding the opportunity scholarships here in the District of Columbia where, where low-income African-American students are now looking this fall, they’re being cut off from their opportunity to get an education. Many of those opportunity scholars attended my high school, attend my high school, John, John Carroll, here in D.C. Now the president’s come back and go, “Oh, we’ll just let those go through.” But what about the long line of, of low-income African-American students in this very city who won’t have the same education that he and I both had as we were coming through at a, at a tough time as well? So I think, I think the priorities of this administration are a little bit misplaced when it comes to a whole host of things.
MR. GREGORY: All right, I want to get you both…
MR. STEELE: Particularly with respect to something like that.
MR. GREGORY: I want to get you both to comment quickly on another priority, and that is health care.
Chairman Kaine, what will be the basis of bipartisan reform?
GOV. KAINE: Sure. Mm-hmm.
MR. GREGORY: There’s been some push back this week, warnings to Democrats not to push this too far because there are Democrats who don’t want to pay the steep price tag for it.
GOV. KAINE: If, if this was easy, it would have been done. But the president’s said the status quo is unacceptable, failed policies of the past are not going to solve our problems, we’ve got to move forward and reform. And we have to structure reform around three components: cost reductions for, for citizens, for businesses; but also it’s really important that the health care industry bring down costs, and you saw historic announcement this weeks with health care industry leaders that they’re going to start to reign in costs. That’ll help everybody. Second, choice, that people should have a choice between plans that they’re currently using or other plans that could be devised and put on the table to create more real competition. And finally, access, that the, the specter of 45-plus million Americans without health care access is troubling. We need to come up with a proposal that puts these together. You’re right that Democrats and Republicans have a lot of different views on this. But I’ve actually been heartened, David, by what I’ve seen, the, the fact that there is some dialogue across party lines on this.
MR. GREGORY: Well, let me ask…
GOV. KAINE: And I think, I think Republicans congressional leaders have applauded the president…
MR. GREGORY: Do you think it’s going to happen?
GOV. KAINE: …for reaching out to…
MR. GREGORY: Chairman, do you think it’ll be passed this year?
MR. STEELE: I think–no. I think…
MR. GREGORY: You don’t think it’ll pass.
MR. STEELE: No, no, no. I think what, I think what we’re going to have is the beginning of a very important discussion. I think the governor is absolutely right that there is a building consensus towards something. But there’s some key pieces that still remain. The costs, let’s start with that. We’re talking about an initial down payment of $640-some billion, OK? That’s the down payment, it doesn’t really get you where you need to be. Number two, in all of the noise that I’m hearing on health care, no one’s talking about one additional cost, which is a significant one, and that’s tort reform. The litigation that, that attends the medical industry performing their, their duties is not being addressed. The insurance companies also need to be at this table in a real way. Pharmaceutical companies need to be at the table in a real way. So I’m hoping that we’re going to have a discussion that makes it affordable, that makes it cost effective, makes it portable, and I think the Republican leadership that wants, also wants to see us address tort reform and, and some other issues…
MR. GREGORY: All right.
GOV. KAINE: Michael, if, if…
MR. STEELE: …that are no–that are not on the table right now.
GOV. KAINE: If you want to see those addressed and your party does, too, we will get a deal with year, because you’ve just laid out key components that the president has, has openly dialogued with congressional leadership about.
MR. STEELE: Well, I, I’d love to see the Democrats take a lead on tort reform. That would be really heartening to see.
MR. GREGORY: Part of this is how we define the other side. Do you think that President Obama is a socialist leader?
MR. STEELE: I think President Obama is a leader, and that’s all that matters to me. I don’t get into the name-calling and all the, all the other rhetoric that, that attends these things. My, my focus is on…
MR. GREGORY: Your party has a meeting; the RNC’s going to–wants to rename the Democratic Party, the Democrat Socialist Party.
MR. STEELE: Well, you know, if they do that, they do that. My, my, my role as chairman, however…
MR. STEELE: Right.
MR. GREGORY: …is to have a conversation with the American people without the name-calling, without the noise making, and that’s my focus. And I’ve been very clear that I don’t think that that is an appropriate way to, to express our views on the issues of the day.
MR. GREGORY: But why would they undermine you and move forward on something like that?
MR. STEELE: Well, well, it’s not a question–it’s not undermining me. Look, you know, you have–as the chairman can tell you, you have legitimate activists in both parties who have very strong passions and feelings, and that’s great, and we have a process in which that can be expressed. My responsibility as the chosen leader of the party is to make sure that when we engage in the debates that we do so in a way that the American people can appreciate that we’re moving towards progress and success.
MR. GREGORY: All right.
MR. STEELE: That’s my job.
MR. GREGORY: Before you go, a week ago the president had a little fun with you at the White House Correspondents’ Dinner…
MR. STEELE: Mm-hmm.
MR. GREGORY: …and this is what he said.
(Videotape, May 9, 2009)
PRES. BARACK OBAMA: Michael Steele is in the house tonight; or as he would say, in the heezie. What’s up? Where is Michael? Is–Michael, for the last time, the Republican Party does not qualify for a bailout. Rush Limbaugh does not count as a troubled asset, I’m sorry.
(End videotape)
MR. GREGORY: Good natured, for sure.
MR. STEELE: Yeah, yeah.
MR. GREGORY: But I wonder if you felt at some level the president was mocking some of your attempts to have kind of a hipper outreach program…
MR. STEELE: No. No, no.
MR. GREGORY: …to African-Americans, other people of color to come to the Republican Party.
MR. STEELE: No. I–that was, that was just good love between two brothers. And I, and I really appreciate the president throwing me a shout-out. It took me totally by surprise. And so this morning I just want to say “what’s up?” right back at you, so.
MR. GREGORY: Chairman Steele, Chairman Kaine.
GOV. KAINE: Thanks, David.
MR. GREGORY: Lots more to discuss. We’ll leave it here this morning. Thank you both very much.
MR. STEELE: All right.
GOV. KAINE: Yeah.
